Comments on: Teach Me To Trade-part 1

By: Lawrence Mauga-Reid

Lawrence Mauga-Reid — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:21:43 +0000

lol @ Comment by William Shaffstall Ã¢â‚¬â€ April 26, 2007 @ 6:20 pm

I heard Andy speak with Robert Kiyosaki on the psychology of winners video clips that get sent out. I feel your words, and after reading your words above (although I just have to laugh at closed minded people that want the answer for what to spend their money on so they have someone to blame if they should lose it) again I want to learn from someone that is actually doing it, and not just pay for a class that teaches a saturated system. Thus, I was searching the internet to see if I could locate a personal email to get tips (your tips on here are priceless as it is) and be in touch with oter winners. Oh, and can you help me out with the $1000..hahaha! Way too funny!

Regards,
Budding entrepreneur/businessman…
Lawrence
Melbourne
Australia
(Kiwi/Samoan original)

By: heh

heh — Sun, 07 Oct 2007 01:12:35 +0000

the software is free, you can download it of their website

http://www.tmtt.com

their classes are crazu expensive, that stuff is free online what they teach

By: William Shaffstall

William Shaffstall — Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:20:47 +0000

Hi Andy

I liked your presentation. That is what sold me on TMTT. At that time I did not have the funds to get the software at the 3 day class. When I finlly got my finaces in order I went to salt lake to buy the TRADE SEEKER after talking with a rep. from TMTT once a week for about 6 mouths . Your talking sold me but I think I was riped off and was charged to WAY TOO MUCH (just about 3,000)for the program. And it just dose what I can get off the web for FREE ON JUST ABOUT EVERY BROKER’S SITE I’VE BEEN TOO! Now TMTT just forgets about me!

(SUCKER ACROSS MY FORE HEAD)

I though the program was just about 2,000 and the thing dose not work . and I have tryed to get the updates from the web site and it never downloades write. and no one anwser my e-mails. I do’t know what to do. I would like to get my money back at least 1,000. I fill the program is worth the 2,000 (price at the class) but not 3,000. If I could get the update now I have v.5 5/05 2002-2005. Ithink it is a good program to watch the stock market. Just about like a lot of the others I seen they all do just about the same thing. just in it’s owne way.

thank you for the time Andy I just kneeded to let it out.

Andy can you HELP with a 1,000 refund? You seem to be a person that can help a guy like me.

By: Steven

Steven — Thu, 22 Mar 2007 16:31:53 +0000

I love how this guy signs up for the class, eats at McDonalds, and then parks several blocks away to save $3 in parking. Then, proceeds to be an expert in financial affairs, calling into question what he learned at the FREE seminar. After the meeting, decided to come home and post a blog on the internet (probably free dial-up) complaining about the FREE information he received from the speaker (who is obviously a bright guy). I have taken several classes from Teach Me To Trade and they have all been excellent. Too bad people are taking financial advice from a guy that will walk 10 minutes to save $3.

Steven
Cleveland, OH

By: andy

andy — Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:46:45 +0000

Rob,

Thank you for posting my comments inspite of my many typos ( i am a hrrible typist)

Ther was one post i made the did not get put up regarding the math of my the example of the $1000 invested in the fund at 8%

This is something alott of people stuggle to understand. a person that saw John bogle give the same example when he explained how it works on fontline wrote in and challenged the math much like you did. In response, Front lin had Brooks Hamilton of Brooks Hamilton & Partners, (which designs 401(k) plans for corporate clients such as Neiman Marcus and Frito-Lay.)
repsoned with a table that walks people thought the math. I think it is huge to catch this

here is the link:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement/etc/tyranny.html

By: Rob

Rob — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 11:35:32 +0000

Hi Andy, thanks for you comments. I tried to report on the seminar as accurately as I could. I was taking notes as furiously as I could. Since recording devices were not allowed, I didn’t have the benefit of going back to the tape to see exactly how something was stated. I did enjoy the seminar as I do with most seminars like that. I have always been fascinated watching public speakers, trying to pick up the techniques they use to make their points.
I think you might have been concerned about why your comments hadn’t appaeared. I have approve the comments individually. Not from censorship of people who don’t aggree with me, or who I don’t aggree with. But to keep off the massive amounts of spam that my site is barraged with daily.
Again, thanks for your comments.

By: Andy

Andy — Tue, 02 Jan 2007 22:05:37 +0000

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In summary I would repeat that criticism is not new to me or anyone who speaks in public. Maybe that’s why so many people have a fear of public speaking. Most criticism I ignore or I take in stride. Some comments though are helpful and I take them to heart and try to improve. As far as trading stock is concerned or Teach me to Trade for that matter, everyone should make their own choice. Don’t let me or anyone else make your choice for you. Like anything else in life from movies, or diets, or Teach me to Trade, there are many students who are vary satisfied with the program and some that are not.
Be careful not to let a dazzling testimonial from one successful person eclipse the hard work that is always a companion to success and make you think success is easy. Be equally if not more weary of critics because some people simply get a strange thrill by cutting good people down (and the critics are usually not as smart as those that they attack Ã¢â‚¬â€œ case in point: http://www.zejn.si/~natan/666.html)
The best way to evaluate the classes is to know this. The Teach me to Trade free workshop is a sales presentation. If you are against investing money to learn about basic stock trading then you can save yourself the trouble and find a different hobby Ã¢â‚¬â€œ and remember that there is nothing wrong with that! Ã¯ÂÅ The world will not end if you don’t take a class form Teach me to Trade.
For those that feel otherwise the basic classes they sell currently range from $199 to $499 for what I think is a great course especially for first timers. People should come to a free preview and see for themselves first hand if the critics are right or wrong. Use common sense, be smart, and make your own decisions.
Know also that their advanced courses are much more robust and expensive Ã¢â‚¬â€œ they are certainly not for everybody. The advanced techniques require much in time and work for one to become proficient. The advanced courses are a lot like buying a $3,000 dollar treadmill. If you are not totally dedicated to hard work when you buy it then you will wind up with something that others found very valuable but was worthless to you.
Best wishes to my friend who has given me a free critique of my presentationÃ¯ÂÅ . I really mean that. I’m a pretty friendly guy and the next time I’m in town I hope he will come see me and introduce himself.
For other who read this post Ã¢â‚¬â€œ maybe take a little break form listening to the naysayer’s for a bit and listen to something good Ã¢â‚¬â€œ try this
http://www.nightingale.com/pa~product~Lead_Field~audio~2142.asp
it really works!
Best wishes to all
Andy

By: Andy

Andy — Tue, 02 Jan 2007 22:05:14 +0000

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"One of the speaker’s mannerisms was to have the audience complete his sentences. He would say the whole sentence except for the last word which would be obvious, and pause to let the audience complete it. Basically a tactic to bring the audience into it."
This is true. It is the best way I know of to make sure that people understand what is being presented. I need to do more of this. Especially when I talk about hedging with protective puts so people don’t get them confused with covered calls. – OK that was a little snide, but it was offered in good humor Ã¯ÂÅ
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"Then he showed us a stock chart. The problem with stock charts like this is you can see the past with 20/20 vision. Yes, you could buy low here, and sell high here, etc. But in real life, you don’t know if you are at a low point or a high point."
This is not true at all. Not even close. The point of using technical analysis is not to predict the future but the help a trader see if a chart fits certain criteria. The MACD, stochastic, Fibonacci Retracement , and the other 200+ technical indicators do not predict the future, rather they are measurements of a stock’s price direction . They help active traders bring structure to their trading and must be used in conjunction with a proper risk reward ratio and a premeditated exit strategy among a dozen other things. But what amazes me is how my friend could have missed this because I spend a huge amount of time quizzing those in attendance on the fact that charts do not predict the future and they are not magic.
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"He showed one example where you could buy and sell a stock and make money on most trades racking up a gain of 13%. He didn’t include into the calculations brokerage fees, or short term capital gains taxes."
First, Teach me to Trade does not teach any techniques of buying a selling the same stock over and over again. As I made very clear in the class (or perhaps not) that this chart was simply and example of what a MACD is (most people have never heard of it before).
It’s true that at this point I did not take the time to mention taxes and so forth Ã¢â‚¬â€œ I apologize if I took you comment the wrong way, but is seemed to me as if you were implying that I was trying to hide the fact that there are trading fees and such involved with trading.
The fact is that there are many things I cannot cover in one meeting (however I do talk about taxes and fees later on Ã¢â‚¬â€œ you left early, remember?) but you can’t cover everything in one meeting just like you cant cover everything in your report.
For example, you have chosen not to include in your report that my very next slide is titled "Lucky or Smart" where I say that one cannot predict that how far a stock goes using a MACD and that if a person gets a large return be it 13% or even higher that is pure luck. Why? The MACD cannot predict how far a trend will continue to go. The MACD measures the change in direction and nothing more. This is one of those famous finish-my-sentence mannerisms you love so much: "If someone brags to you about using the MACD to gets a huge return it means that they probability just got __________. (Lucky)" I really reel them in with that one I’ll tell you. It’s a real humdinger Ã¯ÂÅ !
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"About this time a fire alarm sounded. He said lets wait to hear what they have to say. Well, the announcement came over the speakers to leave the building. He said he was going to stay, but if we felt the need to leave, we could go."
This is not true. When the fire alarm sounded I said if folks felt that they were in danger they should leave – not "could" leave. The announcement actually gave an all clear because it was a false alarm. That is why nearly everybody stayed but you.
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"I thought about it later that it was kind of funny that he was teaching to follow the chart as to when to decide to leave, and not to try second guess it. Yet he was ignoring the fire alarm a sign to leave the building."
This is true. I don’t know if I’m the only person in the world that has paused hearing a fire alarm before panicing. I don’t know if that discredits my sales presentation Ã¢â‚¬â€œ perhaps it does. I think I will let people make their own call on that one.

By: Andy

Andy — Tue, 02 Jan 2007 22:04:44 +0000

What is scary is when I hear people say "2.5%? Who charges that much?" That tells me that have no clue about how much institutions take in hidden fees.
As far as Index Funds, Bogle (who is a dollar cost averaging guy) thinks they are great (so do I) and he talks about them in the interview. Most people in my classes don’t even know what and index fund is. That’s why we have the discussion in the first place.
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"He then started talking about ETF’s (Exchange Traded Funds) and how they have advantages over funds because they can be traded like stocks"
Totally False. I mention some differences between them and suggest that people should get an education so they can understand these differences and decide for themselves which would be best for there own situation. I never recommend any investments or say that one is better that the other. That would be poor sales technique. More reward means more risk. More risk means a need for more education, plain and simple. The "sales pitch" is not about one investment vehicle over another. It’s about education on both vehicles.
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"He mentioned covered calls at this point saying it was like insurance. You have insurance for your car and house, but not your money? The problem with covered calls is that they are relatively expensive. Yes, you can use them as insurance, they don’t last long, You would have to keep buying them over and over which would lower your return on investment of the stock you are protecting. Better to buy stocks that are solid and that you are willing to ride through any short term drops. Yes, some investors do use covered calls as insurance, but only to protect themselves against a known uncertainty that might cause the stock to drop. But not as a day-to-day thing. That would be stupid."
This is absolutely 100% totally False. In fact it’s brutally false. I actually introduced a technique taught in the Teach me to Trade courses called a Protective Put Option.
Where he gets covered calls from here is beyond me. A covered call is a technique designed to profit by selling someone a Call Option on a stock that you own – often in an effort to exploit the time value decay that occurs in the option contract as it moves toward its expiration day. Furthermore you don’t buy covered calls, you sell them. Saying they are expensive is hilarious. It is a bit scary that people out the in cyberspace are attempting to steer people away from a simple $199 investing course acting as if they knew what they were talking about.
However they do also teach people how to write covered calls at Teach me to Trade (which our buy and holder friend Mr. Buffet does do on occasion)

By: Andy

Andy — Tue, 02 Jan 2007 22:03:43 +0000

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"Then he showed some example where someone invests $1000 into a fund at a young age, and holds it for 65 years. The fund supposedly returns 8% (kind of low since the market has averaged about 10% in the long run). He ends up making a lot of money. But the fund company charges him 2.5% for expenses. (2.5%? Who charges that much? Why not buy an index fund that returns 10%, and charges around .25%?) Anyway, supposedly that drops his earnings to 5.5%. But somehow the investment company manages to make more money with their 2.5% fees, than he does with his 5.5% returns. I never figured out the math behind that."
This is not just some example. And it’s not mine. Remember John Bogle? The guy who founded Vanguard? The guy who has been in this industry for 55 years? It’s his example.
Before I walk everyone through this 5th grade math I want to address this assertion that the long term market average is 10% in the long run.
From 1802 to 1870 the average stock market return was an even 7.0%
From 1871 to 1925 the average stock market return was 6.6%
From 1926 to 2005 the average stock market return was 6.7%
Overall form 1802 to 2005 the average stock market return has been 6.8%
Source: Prof. Jeremy J. Siegel The Wharton School. SIA Annual Meeting November 10, 2005 (Since we are talking about buy and hold guys, he is probably the biggest one.) http://www.sia.com/boca2005/pdf/JeremySiegel.pdf

By: Andy

Andy — Tue, 02 Jan 2007 22:02:19 +0000

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"He spent a significant amount of time trashing institutions, suggesting that individual investors can do better." "There were some quotes from Peter Lynch, and Warren Buffet suggesting individuals can do better than the big funds."
Not true. The quotes by Mr. Lynch and Mr. Buffet relate to beating professional money managers not big mutual funds. Here are the exact quotes:
"I’ve said before that an amateur who devotes a small amount of study to companies in an industry that he or she knows something about can outperform 95 percent of the paid experts who manage the mutual funds, plus have fun in doing it." –Peter Lynch, Beating the Street-page 19, paragraph one
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0671891634/ref=sib_dp_pt/105-7566110-0185232#reader-link
"The ultimate irony of the investment business is that there’s no question that an obstetrician will deliver babies better that the husband or wife. Or if you take dentists as a whole, they will remove teeth or fill teeth better than if the patients try to do it themselves. But in the investment world, somebody who believes in American business – and will seek out the lowest way to participate in business and do it consistently Ã¢â‚¬â€œ will achieve results that exceed those of investment professionals as a group. It’s the only industry I can think of where the professional’s efforts subtract value from what the layman can do himself." –Warren Buffet, CFA Magazine Feb. 2003
http://www.ponyexpress.net/~jpickett/livinglegends.pdf
One important note made in my friend’s critique is that neither Mr. Buffet nor Mr. lynch would be classified as "traders" but rather as "buy and holders". That is true (sort of – these guys do a lot more than just buy and hold stocks – they do things that are more complex and at a higher level that you and I will ever experience). Nonetheless there is no doubt that the investing styles I prefer differ form these two men. But we are in total agreement on the fact that is made here – which is simply that we think people can do as well or better than many advisors. This is also is the case with the book the Millionaire Next Door. The book does suggest that "buy had hold" has made some people millionaires but it also states that America’s millionaires made the decision about what investments to buy on their own – which is the point being made here.
To imply that I am claiming that Warren Buffet endorses technical analysis and specifically Teach me to Trade is silly (however Warren Buffet does encourage the use of fundamental analysis and Teach Me to Trade gives training on that as well).

By: Andy

Andy — Tue, 02 Jan 2007 21:59:16 +0000

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"He pointed out that investment companies are looking out for themselves and not for their investors."
This is absolutely true. And I’m not the only one who feels that way. For example John Bogle is the founder of Vanguard, one of the world’s largest mutual fund organizations, and the author of The Battle for the Soul of Capitalism (2005), which addresses “how the financial system undermined social ideals, damaged trust in the markets, robbed investors of trillions". Bogle discusses why the entire retirement system is faltering and, in particular, criticizes the mutual fund industry for emphasizing salesmanship over stewardship in pushing 401(k) plans. He also warns 401(k) investors’ against mutual funds’ costs and fees, which can consume a huge portion returns over the long term.
This is an edited transcript of an interview with Mr. Bogle conducted on February 7, 2006.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement/interviews/bogle.html
Here is a quote from the interview:
"…we have a mutual fund industry that has become a giant marketing system [where] the idea is to bring in the most money by fair means or foul."
While I think it is important enough to cover this in my presentation, Mr. Bogle thinks it’s a big enough deal to write a letter to the SEC
http://johncbogle.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/SEC%20Comment%208-06.pdf
"I have many concerns about the prevailing levels of conduct and values in today’s mutual fund industry. My over ridding concern is that funds are operated largely in the interests of the management companies, rather than in the interest of their shareholders."
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"He trashed on 401k plans"
Absolutely 100% totally false. I never ever suggest a person should not contribute to a 401(k). Quite the contrary. I’m not a stock broker so I can’t give out specific council or advice- but if a 401(k) were an option for my own family I would seriously consider contributing to a 401(k) especially if there is an employer match. It is also my opinion that learning how to be more involved in the decisions made in the 410(k) would be worth taking a class on 401(k) investing techniques. Maybe I did not communicate this well or maybe the listener did not listen well. Whatever it is, it is good feedback because as a salesman it would make no sense to trash 401(k) plans. Trashing 401(k)’s does not effectively sell education. The point here is not whether 401(k)s are good or bad but that most people are almost completely uneducated and uninvolved in the decisions being made for them in their 410(K). If I wanted to trash 401(k)’s, then I would have to take out all the student testimonials given in the presentation regarding people who have the applied the techniques learned at Teach Me To Trade to their 401(k).
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"He then brought the fact that most funds don’t even beat the market."
Absolutely true. But were talking about actively managed funds.
http://www2.standardandpoors.com/spf/pdf/index/SPIVA_2006-Q3-Report.pdf
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"He spent a significant amount of time trashing institutions, suggesting that individual investors can do better." "There were some quotes from Peter Lynch, and Warren Buffet suggesting individuals can do better than the big funds."
Not true. The quotes by Mr. Lynch and Mr. Buffet relate to beating professional money managers not big mutual funds. Here are the exact quotes:
"I’ve said before that an amateur who devotes a small amount of study to companies in an industry that he or she knows something about can outperform 95 percent of the paid experts who manage the mutual funds, plus have fun in doing it." –Peter Lynch, Beating the Street-page 19, paragraph one
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0671891634/ref=sib_dp_pt/105-7566110-0185232#reader-link
"The ultimate irony of the investment business is that there’s no question that an obstetrician will deliver babies better that the husband or wife. Or if you take dentists as a whole, they will remove teeth or fill teeth better than if the patients try to do it themselves. But in the investment world, somebody who believes in American business – and will seek out the lowest way to participate in business and do it consistently Ã¢â‚¬â€œ will achieve results that exceed those of investment professionals as a group. It’s the only industry I can think of where the professional’s efforts subtract value from what the layman can do himself." –Warren Buffet, CFA Magazine Feb. 2003
http://www.ponyexpress.net/~jpickett/livinglegends.pdf
One important note made in my friend’s critique is that neither Mr. Buffet nor Mr. lynch would be classified as "traders" but rather as "buy and holders". That is true (sort of – these guys do a lot more than just buy and hold stocks – they do things that are more complex and at a higher level that you and I will ever experience). Nonetheless there is no doubt that the investing styles I prefer differ form these two men. But we are in total agreement on the fact that is made here – which is simply that we think people can do as well or better than many advisors. This is also is the case with the book the Millionaire Next Door. The book does suggest that "buy had hold" has made some people millionaires but it also states that America’s millionaires made the decision about what investments to buy on their own – which is the point being made here.
To imply that I am claiming that Warren Buffet endorses technical analysis and specifically Teach me to Trade is silly (however Warren Buffet does encourage the use of fundamental analysis and Teach Me to Trade gives training on that as well).

By: Andy

Andy — Tue, 02 Jan 2007 21:58:28 +0000

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"He told us about his own start in investing buying mutual funds. He bought different funds including the New Perspective Fund, and the Janus Mercury Fund."
… "maybe trying to plant a subliminal suggestion that you will not make any money in funds."

False. Here is the problem. As stated above this is a sales meeting. It’s not covert. It’s not hidden. If a person does not want to spend $199 on an investing class or if they feel spending that amount of money for education is unreasonable then they will not get much out of this seminar. It is so hard for some folks to concentrate on the material because their minds are too busy trying to dissect sales techniques. Subliminal plants? Are you serious? Please do not take offense to my candor here, but from what little I know about NLP that is utterly ridiculous.

Anyway the funds referenced were not funds that my wife and I selected ourselves starting out as investors. They were part of an old $410(k) that someone else selected which is the whole point. The point was not that mutual funds are bad. The point was and is that many experts feel ordinary folks like me can do just as well investing on their own. I’ll share some very specific examples later.
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"He suggested that if you are paying investment companies to pick stocks for funds, that they should pick stocks that won’t go down."

This is false. I suggested that they should do a better job than we could do ourselves if they get paid by us hundred of millions of dollars each year. There is no such thing as a stock that "won’t go down". (unless I personally decided to short it any body been there?)

By: Andy

Andy — Tue, 02 Jan 2007 21:57:36 +0000

Hello,

Because I am a contracted speaker and not an employee of Teach Me To Trade I cannot speak in the company’s behalf. If you have question about Teach Me To Trade, visit their web site or call them directly.

Because I was mentioned by name in the post above I would like to offer a few personal comments.

As professional speaker I am very much accustomed to getting criticism and while I can’t say I enjoy it, I have found that listening to the feedback others is invaluable to my efforts to improve. Often I find that I simply did not do a very good job communicating.

Effective meetings have a lot to do with the speaker and also much to do with how well the student concentrates – so the responsibility for effective learning is shared. But even if I know a student did not pay very good attention to what was said I still have to ask myself the question of how I could have helped them and communicate more effectively. In that spirit I genuinely thank to writer for his post and hope he will not take offense if I offer a few clarifications and rebuttals as well as give more specific detail on some of the things he referenced. I’ll also include some links so everyone can do their own research.

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The writer refers to the meeting as "more of a sales pitch".

This is absolutely 100% true. Teach me to Trade is not a brokerage or a financial institution. They don’t offer stock advice. They don’t solicit people’s accounts. They do offer classes on trading techniques and also provide technology such as real time charts and so forth. The primary means of introducing these products is at a free seminar. Anyone who plans to attend the free seminar should expect to hear a sales presentation. If a person wants to learn more about trading stock but has no interest in investing any money in their education then this would not be a presentation they should attend much less enjoy. Most people that attend are intelligent enough to understand that Teach me to Trade is a business and also find that a seminar is a reasonable place to evaluate the program.

(For those that want to learn to trade stock themselves but do not wish to spend money on classes, there are books on technical analysis that are at the public library. I personally feel that there are some real advantages to live instruction that justify investing in a class but that is only my opinion.)

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Andy is "An out-of-shape ex-basketball player who apparently now owns some snowmobile dealerships"

Unfortunately this is also 100% percent true as to being fat and out of shape.
I do not however own some snowmobile dealerships. I share ownership with my partners in a company called Club Rec (www.clubrec.com). We sell timeshares on all kinds of recreational vehicles. While we have four locations, we only have one dealership (Skidoo). The only reason I bring this up is because I use a lot of snowmobile analogies. I also do hard money lending; I dabble in real estate here and there, and I also do seminars for other companies that sell ecommerce products. I am a very average guy and my achievements are mediocre (it think).

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"He talked about problems with social security, and pension plans. SCARE TACTICS!"

This has some truth to it. Since it is a sales presentation, it makes sense to identify problems that a product could be a solution too. If I was selling 72 hour kits to people in New Orleans I would defiantly remind them that they live below sea level and the very real threat of a hurricane in their area. If this is a "scare tactic" then we need to ask the question: should we be scared? My humble opinion is that we should at a minimum be concerned. If a person is sincere and honest about evaluating the need in this country for more education on money matters – take some time to get some facts and then decide for yourself concerning "scare tactics". Take a moment now and click the links below.

2006 Frontline special "Can you afford to Retire" (this is a must see for every American. You can watch it on the web or buy the DVD Ã¢â‚¬â€œ well worth the $25 or so)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement/view/

2006 Study by Alicia Munnell PhD Ã¢â‚¬â€œ director of the Center for Retirement research and Boston College
http://www.bc.edu/centers/crr/issues/ib_48.pdf

Time Magazine article on America’s pension crisis
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1122017,00.html